Deputy head of Rosfinmonitoring - RBC: “Criminals do not comply with sanctions”

Замглавы Росфинмониторинга Герман Негляд рассказал РБК о проблемах с поиском преступников из-за санкций, о том, как борьба с отмыванием затронет цифровой рубль и по какой логике ведомство внесло Акунина в список экстремистов Герман Негляд О риске исключения России из FATF

«Боюсь ошибиться, но уже пять или шесть заседаний подряд FATF (международная Группа разработки финансовых мер борьбы с отмыванием денег. — ) рассматривает наш вопрос, и решение не принимается. Этот факт свидетельствует о том, что вопрос политизирован и реальных оснований для исключения России из группы нет.

Отдельные государства, входящие в FATF, видимо, рассматривают эту площадку как еще одно поле боя. В общем-то, многие этого и не скрывают. Мы, со своей стороны, всегда призываем задуматься о последствиях такой политизации».

«Наш текущий статус в FATF — приостановка членства — сам по себе не влечет для российского бизнеса и для наших граждан никаких прямых последствий. Страны FATF в первую очередь занимаются разработкой стандартов, правил. В то же время эта ситуация с нашим статусом показательна: Россия — единственный член «Большой двадцатки», который сейчас не участвует в выработке этих стандартов. Мы, разумеется, признаем стандарты FATF и всегда были страной, которая одной из первых имплементировала стандарты и на высоком уровне поддерживала усилия FATF, но с точки зрения представленности нашей страны — все же у нас достаточно крупная экономика, развитая финансовая система — категорически неправильно, что мы не можем участвовать в выработке этих правил».

«В чем была уникальность и сила FATF: это механизм диалога и выстраивания сбалансированных правил игры. Это позволяло учитывать различные подходы — есть романо-германская правовая семья, есть англосаксонская с прецедентным правом. Определенная гибкость в этом диалоге появлялась и в стандартах. Мы беспокоимся в том числе о том, чтобы не было крена в сторону позиции только одной группы стран — тогда глобальное регулирование может стать однобоким. На наш взгляд, такие риски сейчас не исключены».

Факты о Германе Негляде

В 1998 году окончил Московское военно-музыкальное училище, а в 2002-м — Академию права и управления Министерства юстиции по специальности «юриспруденция».

С 2005 по 2012 год работал в правовом управлении Федеральной службы исполнения наказаний, курировал вопросы правовой экспертизы.

В Росфинмониторинге с 2012 года. Начинал с работы в юридическом управлении, в 2020-м назначен статс-секретарем и заместителем руководителя службы. Отвечает в ведомстве за подготовку предложений по законопроектам, международное сотрудничество, координацию с FATF и «Эгмонт».

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“The grounds for including a country in the FATF sanctions lists (the organization maintains gray and black lists of countries depending on their compliance with measures to combat money laundering and the financing of terrorism. -) can only be confirmed strategic shortcomings of the national anti-money laundering system. In relation to RUSSIA, there is no reason to include us even in the gray list. As for the consequences of such decisions, they consist in a more attentive attitude of banking services of other jurisdictions to business transactions and to transfers of individuals from the “sanctioned” country.”

German Neglyad (Photo: Andrey Lyubimov / RBC)

About EU sanctions against Rosfinmonitoring

The European Union placed Rosfinmonitoring under sanctions on December 18, justifying this by the fact that the organization consistently includes in the list of terrorists and extremists individuals and organizations that are critical “towards the Kremlin,” including journalists and Western social networks.

“Firstly, these are absolutely illegal measures that were introduced unilaterally and, in our opinion, without any justification. Secondly, as follows from the published document, they are related to the function of Rosfinmonitoring to compile a list of persons involved in extremist or terrorist activities. We do administer such a list, including on the basis of international obligations. The order in which the list was compiled was checked several times. Thus, in 2019, the FATF conducted a comprehensive inspection of Russia’s anti-money laundering system. No questions about the procedure for compiling the list arose and could not arise.

What is this order? Investigative bodies and judicial authorities make procedural decisions against persons involved in terrorist or extremist activities. Based on such decisions, in accordance with the law, Rosfinmonitoring creates a consolidated list, which is communicated to financial market organizations. Thus, the mechanism created in Russia is absolutely legal and transparent. Therefore, it is obvious that sanctions against Rosfinmonitoring are an absolutely political decision not related to the professional work of the department.”

“As for our employees and their participation in international events in the countries of the European Union, under the regime of entry into other states, our status is no different from other citizens of the Russian Federation. Since our membership in the FATF has been suspended since February of this year, we participate in meetings virtually on issues that relate to the agenda of the Russian Federation.”

About Boris Akunin and other famous Russians on the list of extremists and terrorists

“As I already mentioned, we form this list on the basis of procedural decisions made by investigative or judicial authorities. You can open the law , everything is written there: the grounds for inclusion, everything point by point, the grounds for exclusion and the departments that make these decisions. They send us a copy of this decision, and we, based on, say, confirmation of the initiation of a criminal case and the prosecution of a person as an accused (for example, under an extremist article), add it to the consolidated list. We cannot help but add it, we cannot add it by our own decision - we are forming a general list in accordance with the law.”

“I also read “Fandorin” at one time (a series of books by Boris Akunin “New Detective” about the adventures of Erast Fandorin. -). But this does not mean anything - the law is harsh, but it is the law, as the ancients said. If he is a good writer or journalist, this does not mean that if a crime is committed, such a person should be exempt from responsibility.”

“The list is one of the main tools that entails the freezing of relevant assets. When banks and other financial institutions receive it, they apply blocking measures.”

“At the same time, there is a list of humanitarian payments and operations that the person on the list continues to receive or carry out. Firstly, these are all the funds that the person involved officially earns. Through additional verification, he can receive them. Secondly, these are payments for the obligations of this person that arose before he was included in the list. That is, there are exceptions, all of them are aimed at humanitarian purposes. All obligatory payments, such as taxes, are also paid from frozen funds.”

On the impact of sanctions on relations between Rosfinmonitoring and the financial intelligence services of friendly countries

“I don’t think that this somehow affects our interaction; nevertheless, there are much more sober voices in the world. A large number of countries, and specifically their financial intelligence services, adequately assess the politicization of the situation around Russia and Rosfinmonitoring. Cooperation with more than fifty states continues, financial investigations are being conducted. We have conducted and continue to conduct more than 700 joint financial investigations this year. Therefore, we see no reason for these countries to somehow really take this politicized decision into account. Everyone, including those who introduced these sanctions, understands that these are unilateral illegal measures that are not related to real professional work in the fight against financial crimes and crime in general.”

German Neglyad (Photo: Andrey Lyubimov / RBC)

About the loss of connections with the financial intelligence services of unfriendly countries

“Criminals, as we know, do not comply with sanctions - both legal and illegal. And, naturally, they will be in these contradictions between the bodies that are supposed to fight crime, look for vulnerabilities, some loopholes.”

“As an example, I can give the following situation: in Russia, our employees, together with colleagues from law enforcement agencies, uncovered an international criminal group. Crimes were committed against citizens of one of the European countries remotely. The criminal proceeds from these activities were also deposited in banks in this European country. I can’t name her now, because the process is still underway. At the same time, more than 100 victims were identified, respectively, Europeans - this is only what we know.”

“Despite our repeated appeals to the financial intelligence of this country: “Let’s work, let’s provide you with data so that together we can bring these individuals to justice, and you can return these assets to the victims,” we, unfortunately, see an unwillingness to cooperate. This case happened in 2023, we repeatedly sent requests, first to one group, then to another. But this approach has manifested itself, probably, since last year. First of all, European departments use the tactic of silent refusals. I won’t say that this is all countries, but most do not respond to requests.”

“It turns out that for the sake of the political agenda, citizens are not even suffering from Russia, but from these very European countries, which at the same time pay taxes for the maintenance of these departments. These citizens will probably be interested in knowing this.”

“In this case, the volume of thefts is not even that important. Because today this is the case, tomorrow it may be different. This example simply illustrates, to put it mildly, the lack of sovereignty and complete dependence of the competent authorities of a number of countries on the political agenda.”

How sanctions have reduced the flow of dubious transactions through Russia

“I can say that we have recorded a reduction in suspicious both outgoing and incoming flows into our country in the last two years. This fact exists. But we must understand that the criminal business is also looking for new forms, new directions. And we see that suspicious cross-border financial flows are also being reoriented - to other regions, to new countries. We are now building interaction with foreign partners so that these flows are more transparent and there is a better understanding for the government agencies of our countries.”

On the mandatory sale of foreign currency earnings by exporters

In October, amid a weakening ruble, President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on the mandatory repatriation of foreign currency earnings by exporters. To control this process, Rosfinmonitoring received the right to appoint its representatives in the company.

“Here I would immediately say that our new function is not currency control. We have not become a new currency control body, but rather we are a currency monitoring body. Now we do not observe any gross violations on the part of exporters or their subsidiaries in complying with the norms of the relevant presidential decree and government resolutions in its development. In general, everyone has reorganized, and the sale of foreign currency earnings is carried out rhythmically.”

“Of course, there are estimates (of the volume of repatriated proceeds), but this is sensitive information. However, I think that the exchange rate to a certain extent demonstrates that the decree has begun to work and foreign exchange earnings have become more actively sold.”

German Neglyad (Photo: Andrey Lyubimov / RBC)

On the problem of exporters with the “circulation” of rubles

In November, Vedomosti reported that exporters receiving revenues abroad in rubles are forced to buy foreign currency in order to sell them on the Russian market under the requirement to sell foreign currency proceeds. Thus, they have to bear costs even when making international payments in national currencies, rather than in dollars and euros. The Ministry of Finance confirmed the presence of such a requirement in the decree.

“When formulating the threshold values ​​for the sale of foreign currency earnings, the government took into account established business practices. But at the same time, the regulatory documents provide flexibility for exporters whose ruble revenue predominates. For this purpose, there is a mechanism of an interdepartmental commission under the Russian Ministry of Finance, which can consider the corresponding request from the exporter and change the threshold value in each specific case. That is, it is possible to make a targeted decision regarding a specific exporter. Currently we do not see any serious problems in this area.”

What will happen to exporters after the decree on the sale of currency is completed?

“It is not our competence to determine what will happen in the future with the introduced duties of exporters.”

“However, if we look carefully at how the monitoring function is assigned to our department now, there is no mention there that the monitoring itself is temporary, in contrast to the mandatory sale. At the same time, the powers are secured to appoint authorized representatives of exporters and to transfer information to the currency control authorities in case of detection of violations of currency legislation.”

“Exporters, at least those with whom we communicate, are quite reasonable and positive about this. Yes, there are working issues, but they are being resolved.”

On the regulation of cryptocurrency in Russia

“At the beginning of December there was a meeting of the Eurasian Group (a regional subgroup of the FATF. -), and they also considered Russia’s report on progress in implementing FATF recommendations. Despite the fact that progress was noted on many recommendations, it is precisely the recommendation related to new technologies, which includes the regulation of cryptocurrency circulation, that, apparently, our rating will be lowered. Because, objectively, regulation of the circulation of cryptocurrency in our country has not yet been introduced enough: there is neither a ban nor permission for the operation of crypto exchanges. The question is overdue, of course.”

“As you know, there are two fundamental positions: the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank. According to the first position, regulation should be carried out by assigning appropriate responsibilities to crypto exchanges and crypto exchangers. That is, to recognize them in the legal field, to consolidate their rights and responsibilities, such as identifying clients, analyzing transactions, identifying suspicious ones, refusing to carry out highly suspicious transactions - the whole range of responsibilities and rights that banks now perform. The second position is that from the point of view of protecting our financial system, the activities of such crypto exchanges and crypto exchangers should be prohibited.

German Neglyad (Photo: Andrey Lyubimov / RBC)

Both points of view have their arguments, but so far neither of them has prevailed. Considering how many citizens and legal entities we have over the years have begun to own cryptocurrency, the option of the Ministry of Finance would probably be preferable. We very much hope that an agreed decision will be made next year.”

On access of individual clients to the digital ruble

“We are working together with the Bank of Russia on amendments to our anti-money laundering law, which would regulate all the nuances with the digital ruble. Our basic position is that all anti-money laundering mechanisms that exist for current forms of the ruble (cash and non-cash. -) will work for the digital ruble - no more, but, in general, not much less. In this sense, nothing should change for individuals in terms of anti-money laundering procedures. Refusal to operate with a digital ruble will also be possible if there are serious suspicions that this operation is being carried out for the purpose of a crime or is somehow connected with it.”

On control over cross-border business operations

Due to sanctions that made international transfers through traditional channels impossible, businesses began to look for alternative payment methods. In this regard, the Central Bank softened control over such payments and ceased to classify them as attempts to cash out or withdraw funds abroad. According to the HEAD of the department of financial monitoring and currency control of the Bank of Russia, Ilya Yasinsky, before the crisis and sanctions, almost any changes in payment chains by companies were classified as suspicious transactions, but now this is not the case.

“The Bank of Russia and I, both last year and in the past year, drew the attention of supervised entities to the changed payment schemes. Our goal is to prevent illegal financial transactions. At the same time, we have always tried to do our best to ensure that the anti-money laundering system does not interfere with legal operations and businesses that carry out legal activities, but rather even helps. Our leader, DIRECTOR of Rosfinmonitoring Yuri Anatolyevich Chikhanchin, has repeatedly stated that in a number of cases we even dealt with our foreign colleagues and explained to them that Russian business in this case is carrying out absolutely legal activities and there is no reason to apply measures to block any transactions already in those jurisdictions. We have always tried to adhere to this main line, and it does not change in this situation either. There are no plans for any drastic tightening of the anti-money laundering regime; there is no reason for this.

Legitimate, decent businesses shouldn't make life difficult. This would be contrary to the tasks of a government agency, including ours. We believe that the targeted work that is being carried out is fully justified.”

German Neglyad (Photo: Andrey Lyubimov / RBC)

About shadow platforms for cashing out

“According to our estimates, over the past few years, together with control and law enforcement agencies, we have been able to significantly optimize the work to suppress their activities. Now the life cycle of such a site does not exceed a year and a half. And turnover is also significantly reduced compared to several years ago. In the past year, ten such large sites were liquidated together with law enforcement agencies with a turnover of over 28 billion rubles. Those that remain, work is underway on them.”

“The shadow criminal business is now being restructured to cash out using individuals first. This can be explained, among other things, by the launch of the Bank of Russia’s “Know Your Client” platform, which works for legal entities. Up to 50% of cash withdrawals are from individuals, primarily “drops” - fictitious individuals. It is not a good sign that young people continue to be used for this purpose. Young people are ruining their financial history and do not yet understand that they may face significant problems in the future in opening some financial products, obtaining a loan, etc.”

On the growth of cash in circulation and the ban on large purchases for cash

«Давайте вспомним, что за последние 7–10 лет доля безналичных расчетов в обращении у нас росла значительными темпами, и это был естественный объективный процесс, который шел своим чередом без каких-либо прямых мер со стороны государства. Наверное, это правильно. У нас что наличные, что безналичные, что теперь цифровой рубль — это равноценные средства платежа. И каких-то глобальных инициатив, которые бы запрещали расчеты наличными, у нас нет. Мы скорее склонны поддерживать точечные решения по этому вопросу. Вы, наверное, знаете законодательную инициативу по запрету расчетов наличными при скупке металлолома. Там действительно уровень риска поднялся до того, что было тяжело разобраться в природе происхождения средств. Такое решение законодательное было принято. Но это точечная история, которая не претендует на массовое тиражирование».

О контроле за сделками физлиц с золотом

В июле стало известно, что Росфинмониторинг намерен распространить антиотмывочные нормы на продажу слитков и драгоценных камней клиентам-физлицам и обратный выкуп таких ценностей, соответствующие поправки он разрабатывает вместе с Минфином.

«Речь идет о том, чтобы дополнительно банки оценивали операции физлиц по приобретению либо продаже таких слитков и сообщали эту информацию нам. Это инициатива Минфина, который является регулятором в области рынка драгоценных металлов, и мы ее поддерживаем».

«Мы видим риски в этой сфере. В этом году количество незаконных операций либо подозрительных операций, связанных с приобретением драгметаллов, значительно увеличилось. Граждане приобрели десятки тонн золота, часть которого вывезена за рубеж. При покупке металла нередко предъявлялись недостоверные документы. Именно поэтому мы поддерживаем данную инициативу, которая позволит усилить контроль за оборотом драгметаллов».

Герман Негляд(Фото: Андрей Любимов / РБК)

О практике банков по блокировке подозрительным клиентам онлайн-сервисов и приложений

«Мы видим, что рынок использует эту меру как заградительную. Ряд банков, до того как принять решение о сообщении о подозрительной операции нам либо об отказе в ее проведении, понуждают клиента появиться в офисе. Каким образом? В данном случае приостановив дистанционное банковское обслуживание.

Поэтому, не скрою, мы задумались о том, чтобы привести к единообразию эту практику и основания (для блокировок ДБО. — ) прописать в законе. Общий вектор: раз такая практика сложилась, то она должна быть единообразно урегулирована. Но пока мы не готовы вынести на публичное обсуждение какие-то конкретные нормы. Может быть, в следующем году».

«В целом анализ банковских практик и их регулирование — это наша постоянная работа. Так, в прошлом году нам пришлось урегулировать путем законодательного запрета негативную практику взимания повышенных банковских комиссий при наличии подозрений в легализации преступных доходов.

As for RBS, it is not a ban that is supposed here , but the introduction of uniform rules for applying a refusal in it if there are appropriate grounds.”

About whether it is possible to change the list of questionable transactions

“Such work is carried out constantly, because some signs cease to be relevant, some new patterns and signs appear. But I would like it [the list] to be treated correctly: these are signs of unusual transactions, which in themselves do not entail either a report to financial intelligence, or refusal of the operation - nothing. This is just some kind of guidance for banks to take a closer look at the relevant operation and make a decision. And this decision may be related to an operation that falls under these criteria, or to an operation that does not. Thus, there is appropriate flexibility. As for adjustments on our part, for example, regarding the problem of the same “drops,” it would be possible to orient banks to additional signs, and also, possibly, regarding the illegal circulation of cryptocurrency.”